Wikipedia.org
Wikipedia, today probably the de facto leading online encyclopaedia, is really blocking the progress of adopting Kyiv as the correct spelling of the capital of Ukraine. At the moment the stalemate is caused by their unwillingness to update until the name Kyiv becomes widely used, and it is not becoming widely used beacuse everybody is waiting.
There may be too many instances of “Kіеv” on the web, and it will be practically impossible to revert all of them, however, the key ones need to be spotted and updated.
For this, we will need some help of our supportes. Just by searching the Wikipedia site for “Kiev” and updating, regularly, one page or two, even few people can tip the process into the right directions.
There are some enthusiastic people fixing it already. So let us not wait and join them in.
Source: Kyiv vs Kiev @ Wikipedia
9 Responses
Stay in touch with the conversation, subscribe to the RSS feed for comments on this post.
Finally, Wikipedia is clearing itself and featuring modern, correct and original spellings of Ukrainian cities.
The former page of Kharkov is now redirecting to that one of Kharkiv [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv ].
As to Kyiv and Kiev, both pages co-exist, so far – so good, they accept only the following wording “Kiev, also known as Kyiv ” – which is not completely correct. It should go as “Kyiv, formerly known as Kiev”.
Few more wiki typos to correct.
Get with the 21st century!!!!!!! What ARE you waiting for???? What is the modern name for “New Amsterdam”???? KYIV is the capital of Ukraine, and it’s spelled “KYIV”!!!
We are currently in discussions with John E. McLaughlin, Associate Professor, English, Utah State University who is one of the last standing on Wikipedia and is still correcting Kyiv back to Kiev [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Taivo#Kyiv ].
The message to Mr McLaughlin goes as follows:
As in the case of new spelling of Almaty (Kazakh: Алматы; formerly known as Alma-Ata, Verniy (Верный)) [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almaty ] so it should be worded Kyiv (Ukrainian: Київ; formerly known as Kiev) [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyiv ]
All the naming related discussions on Wikipedia can be found here:
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kyiv
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kyiv#Requested_move_to_Kyiv_.28February_2008.29
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kyiv#Requested_move_to_Kyiv_.28September_2008.29
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kyiv#Kyiv_vs_Kiev
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kyiv/naming
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kyiv#incorrect_atribution
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev/naming
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev/naming#Strong_arguments
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kyiv#Talk_Archives (currently 14 archives)
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev/Naming_issue_Archive01_%282003-2004%29
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev/Naming_issue_Archive02_%28January-August_2005%29
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev/Archive03
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev/Naming_issue_Archive04_%28August-December_2005%29
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev/Archive05
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev/Naming_issue_Archive06_%28mostly_finished_by_mid-2006%29
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev/Archive07
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev/Naming_issue_Archive08
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev/naming/archive_001
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev/naming/archive_002
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev/naming/archive_003
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev/naming/archive_004
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev/naming/archive_005
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev/naming/archive_006
* http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D1%96%D0%BA%D1%96%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%96%D1%8F:%D0%9A%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BF%D0%B0_(%D1%80%D1%96%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B5)/%D0%A2%D0%B0%D0%BA_Kyiv_%D1%87%D0%B8_Kiev_%3F_(10.11.2007%E2%80%9418.11.2007)
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Markiyan#You_are_edit_warring_at_Kiev
* http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kiev&oldid=193367766#Architectural_monuments
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev/Naming_issue_Archive01_%282003-2004%29#Here_is_the_metric.
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Markiyan#You_are_edit_warring_at_Kiev
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Taivo#Kyiv
Проблема зараз не в Джоні зокрема, а в Вікіпедії в цілому. Ось їх директиви (розмиті і не чіткі, але якими вони керуються):
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_%28geographic_names%29
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_%28geographic_names%29#Widely_accepted_name
Раніше вони лише аргументували, що зміна походила від української сторони. Тепер, коли написання Kyiv отримало світове визнання (проте ще не використання) потрібно наголошувати на першому. Цим ми автоматично перебираємо більше фактів на свою сторону.
Вікіпедія вимагає “widely accepted” – себто визнання, а не використання. Отож, Kyiv it is!
Пропоную, якщо знаєте кому, переслати моє звернення до людей, які б штурмували впертого професора безпосередньо в Юті.
Ось куди можна писати пану Джону на інтернеті:
>>> nuwitaivottsi@yahoo.com, jmclaughlin@cc.usu.edu
>>> http://english.usu.edu/contact_johnmclaughlin.aspx
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Taivo#Kyiv
Marko (aka Markiyan in Wikipedia) has violated an important Wikipedia policy found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry#Meatpuppets. By issuing a call to arms here to those outside the Wikipedia community, he has summoned what we within the Wikipedia community call “meat puppets”. Those who summon meat puppets are often issued temporary or permanent editing bans on Wikipedia. Meat puppets to go to Wikipedia in order to promote one particular point of view are also either banned outright or given temporary bans on their editing privileges until they demonstrate that their editing is more than just for a single purpose.
Wikipedia welcomes new editors to its ranks, but only editors who are willing to work within the rules and consensus-building requirements of the community. Editors who refuse to participate in the consensus-building process are often issued increasingly harsh blocks until they are banned permanently.
Wikipedia works on consensus-building. In the absence of consensus, no change will be made. The Wikipedia spelling is Kiev. Consensus is required to change it to Kyiv. In the absence of consensus, the spelling remains Kiev. Any editor who unilaterally changes the spelling in an article to Kyiv is subject to being reverted. That means that the editing is undone. There are dispute processes if consensus cannot be reached, but just stating that “I want X to become Y” does not constitute a consensus for change. In discussions such as this, the comments of meat puppets and those who summon meat puppets are often deleted and always ignored.
Wikipedia is not a governmental mouthpiece and is not bound by the policies of any government or intergovernmental agency. Therefore, the majority of Marko’s evidence presented here is irrelevant to the discussion of how to spell Kyiv in English. The ONLY relevant issue to Wikipedia is common English usage. Once a preponderance of the reliable sources demonstrate that common English usage has shifted from Kiev to Kyiv, then a consensus can be reached. But you must not mistake nationalistic fervor or a decree by the Rada for common English usage.
Having support of thousands if not millions of people who live in the country and beyond and who know it is Kyiv, we have every right to ask for the change, especially after Wikipedia has changed Alma-Ata to Almaty. It is now a question of fairness and justice.
This year we have changed Facebook, Twitter, WizzAir and many others. Wikipedia is just another web portal. An important one though.
Mr John E. McLaughlin, (aka Taivo): you can cooperate, or if not, prepare to fight. We are not settled to give in. Are you ready to stand those thousands who will defend Kyiv? And please don’t get me wrong, but persistent violation of Ukrainian laws that require the capital of Ukraine to be spelled as Kyiv in English language will bring you nowhere.
Mr. Mark Kуchma, because of your battleground mentality about this, your call to arms here, and your posting of my personal information, one of the administrators at Wikipedia has blocked you from editing there. He has told you that to resume your participation in Wikipedia, you must remove this thread since it violates Wikipedia policy. If you want Wikipedia to actually listen to you, then you should comply with those requirements. None of the other Wikipedia administrators will look kindly on this issue until the battleground situation you have proposed here has ended.
You seem to think that I have some kind of authority on Wikipedia. You don’t understand the nature of Wikipedia if that is the case. Wikipedia is a community of editors–thousands of them. Each editor is autonomous and makes his or her own decisions based on reliable sources and policy. Decisions are reached on Wikipedia by a consensus of the editors interested in a particular issue. Sometimes only a small number of editors are interested in an issue and consensus is easy to reach. Sometimes a larger number of editors are interested and consensus is much more difficult. But Wikipedia runs only on building a consensus of the interested editors. There isn’t any “horse trading” involved. You present your evidence on a Talk Page at Wikipedia and you discuss the issue with whatever other editors are involved. If you have read the archives at the Kiev article, you will see that the issue is not my realm. I am simply following the result of the last attempt at consensus-building, which was “no consensus for changing the name of Kiev to Kyiv”. The Ukrainian government has absolutely nothing to do with the process nor does the U.S. government or any other government or intergovernmental agency. Personally I don’t care one way or the other and if you read any of my personal correspondence, the captions of my photos on Facebook, my text messages, my Powerpoint presentations, etc., you would see that I always spell it Kyiv. I usually even spell it Kyiv on Wikipedia talk pages. But I must distinguish between my personal practice and what Wikipedia consensus has decided (not my decision, but the decision of the consensus of Wikipedia editors) for the spelling. So your campaign directed at me personally is a waste of time because 1) I already spell it Kyiv everywhere else and 2) I am not an “authority” on Wikipedia who has the power to change Wikipedia policy or practice. I suggest that you follow the advice of Wikipedia’s administrators (of which I am not one) and 1) remove this entire call to arms thread on your website (and especially my personal information), 2) politely request that the administrator who blocked you lift your indefinite editing ban on Wikipedia, and 3) request that another consensus discussion begin at the Kiev page and see where that discussion leads.
Mr John E. McLaughlin (a.k.a. Taivo) – you may rest well today as you orchestrated all the “arguments” against Kyiv. You may also smile at my personal Wikipedia account, which you blocked.
But this will only tag you as a very anti-Ukrainianist and neither your marriage to one of our counterparts nor your past projects will not save you from this shame. You are serving the wrong side. And that side is very, very anti-Ukrainian. You were informed about this and yet you chose to persevere. I have counted, 2/3 of all arguments for Kіеv on the latest WIkipedia discussion came from you.
You are doomed to remain in the hall of shame for eternity as a person who was blocking the shift from Kіеv to Kyiv.
The fight is not over. We will win it sooner or later. Get ready to stand up one day. Eventually I will bring you million of Ukrainians and the government prosecution as well.
You will lose. Ukrainians will smile that day. Soon to come.
There were other complaints about Wikipedia too: http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,6319774,00.html